When I was a young poet living in the East Village in New York City in 1976, I took a writing workshop with Ted Berrigan. Ted taught at the legendary Poetry Project at Saint Mark’s Church-in-the-Bowery, then the center of the New York School of poets. His class was extremely popular. There were 35 to 40 students in the workshop. Ted held forth on various subjects during the class—he was a great raconteur, spinning amazing stories about the writers and artists he’d known over the years.
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| Poet Ted Berrigan |
The following year, 1977, I was part of a group of three younger writers who interviewed Ted Berrigan for City magazine. Ted invited us to speak with him in the railroad flat in the tenement where he lived at 101 St. Mark’s Place in the East Village. When the three of us conducting the interview arrived, Ted was there with his wife, the poet Alice Notley, and their two children. Toys littered the floor and the paint was peeling off the walls. But the apartment was decorated with stunning artworks by painters Ted was friends with, including Alex Katz, Joe Brainard, and Larry Rivers. Such a contrast!
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| portrait of Ted Berrigan by Alex Katz |
He said some unforgettable things in that interview, including his analysis of speed in poetry. Ted categorized poets by whether they were “fast” or “slow” poets. In the “fast” group he included writers like Frank O’Hara. O’Hara was known for quickly jotting down stream-of-consciousness observations and thoughts during busy social interactions, so his poems have a rapid pace built into them. Among the “slow” poets, Ted listed Robert Creeley, a writer who often included short lines and a lot of blank space in his work.
Another memorable moment in the interview was when we asked Ted about his connection to the New York School. He revealed that the label “the New York School” was originally a joke, a goof on the School of Paris. Ted described the New York School in poetry as having no program or spokespersons, unlike, say, the Black Mountain School, where the writer Charles Olson deliberately shaped the aesthetic.
Ted also talked in the interview about the literary criticism then popular in university English departments, with its approach that “any poem could be ‘cracked.’” That was a description Ted quoted from his wife, Alice Notley. Ted went on to categorize that academic idea of a poem as, “If you went at it [a poem] hard enough you could literally take it apart and get it.” He dismissed that methodology as being just “funny,” a scornful attitude very typical of the avant-garde writers in New York City at the time.
City magazine editor Ron Kostar then questioned Ted Berrigan about the structure of his own poems. Ron challenged Ted by saying his poems were made up of fragments. Ted responded by saying that he and the writers he felt closest to got the idea of poems as collages of fragments from writers like Charles Olson and Ezra Pound. He maintained that what he and his literary colleagues were doing with fragments was not that different from the work of more traditional or narrative writers:
… we don’t think of it as fragmented, though it’s certainly made up of fragments … But in the piecing together there’s a definite line that runs through the poem, the same as the kind of line that runs through the most academic of academic poems. It’s just that it’s placed in a different location. It doesn’t run right down the center, but it moves in arabesques…
I love his description of the thread of a poem as moving in an arabesque, but I’m not sure I agree that all avant-garde poems have a thread running through them. Some are just random fragments.
Ted went on to offer a fascinating account of how he personally composed a poem:
… if the kind of poem I’m writing is a poem about an experience [or] … emotion that falls upon me, and I understand something all at once, I like the poem to give that to you. If it’s something that took longer, and was a more complex experience, I like the poem to give you enough to take you into that …
Another moment that stands out in the interview was when Ted said, “There are only half a dozen ways to begin a poem, and half a dozen ways to end a poem. Most poems take place in the middle …” I agree, and I’d even say that there are fewer than half a dozen ways to end a poem. (Please see my blogs on types of closure in poetry.)
I won’t easily forget Ted’s hilarious description of how he completely made up an interview with the composer John Cage. Ted published the interview, thinking that readers would understand that this was a work of fiction. It turned out this was not understood, and astonishingly, Ted’s piece won a prize as the best interview of the year. The judges, who included Susan Sontag and Robert Brustein, were very surprised to learn that Ted had created this made-up interview as a sort of Dadaist act. John Cage, it turned out, was highly amused by the whole incident.
Ted Berrigan died in 1983 at the age of 48, after a life of burning his candle at both ends. Many former students gratefully remember his classes, his humor, and his one-of-a-kind insightful ramblings on the art of poetry.
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Zack’s new book of poetry, The Kama Sutra for Senior Citizens and Other Poems on Aging. Order in the USA Order in the UK
Zack’s most recent translation, The Water Drinkers and Other Sketches of Paris in the Romantic Era by Henry Murger
Other posts of interest:
Getting the Most from Your Writing Workshop
How Not to Become a Literary Dropout
Putting Together a Book Manuscript
Does the Muse Have a Cell Phone?
Poetic Forms: Introduction, the Sonnet, the Sestina, the Ghazal, the Tanka, the Villanelle
