Showing posts with label John Berryman. Show all posts
Showing posts with label John Berryman. Show all posts

Thursday, July 31, 2025

Putting Together a Poetry Manuscript: A Conversation with Lisa Gluskin Stonestreet

This blog is an interview with poet and teacher Lisa Gluskin Stonestreet. 

Zack Rogow: What’s the biggest difference between writing poems one at a time and putting together a book-length poetry manuscript?

 

Lisa Gluskin Stonestreet: Writing a poem requires close-up responsiveness at the level of the word, the image, the line break. A manuscript asks you to open your aperture, to apply that same amalgam of thought and feeling to a more complex construction.


Lisa Gluskin Stonestreet
When I first tried to assemble a manuscript, I didn’t know what I didn’t know. it took a long time for me to even figure out what a manuscript was, beyond a pile of poems. I’d think, Is any of what I’m doing working? Am I making things better or worse? I have no idea. Then during my MFA, I worked with Marianne Boruch, who’s a flat-out genius. She had me read a bunch of first books, look at them close up. What happens from poem to poem to poem, and what is the larger arc? How do the poems speak to each other?

What book helped you most?

 

Probably Louise Glück, Firstborn. Her sensitivity to image and sound and especially rhythm (which doesn't get talked about enough as a throughline) helped me understand how poems that weren’t necessarily part of an overt narrative could speak to, and build on, each other. I realized that I had to trust that my own poems were also talking to each other, even if I couldn’t hear them yet.

 

So should a poetry manuscript have a single theme or narrative thread?

 

I'm not going to tell you that. I mean, should it? No. Can it? Of course. And yeah, “project books” are having a moment—or maybe we’re already in the backlash. A book can be drawn together by voice, energy, image, recurring obsession… the perceptions of a human consciousness moving through the world.

 

Take Berryman’s Dreamsongs. They don't exactly have a narrative thread, but…

 

They have a vibe.

 

Berryman is obviously problematic in a lot of ways, but still, a great example. 77 Dream Songs showed me what a book could be, what a voice could be. Its central consciousness is tied up with voice as masquerade, aspects of the self enacted as characters. For me, tracing that kind of shapeshifting is a big part of ordering a manuscript, along with movement of sound and rhythm.

 

What about chronology? Should poems set in childhood come first?

 

A novel can have flashbacks and flash-forwards and other temporal devices; why not a book of poems? And of course, not every manuscript is autobiographical, even given a consistent speaker.

 

How many poems do you start with when you put together a manuscript, and how many do you end up with?

 

My first book went through so many poems, and structures, and forms in the seven years I sent it out. The wait was frustrating—but I learned so much in that time. The first draft had maybe 30 poems. Then it got longer, and shorter again, and longer, in a kind of accordion movement. That’s happened with almost every manuscript I've worked on, my own and others’.

So how do you know when it’s time to put together a manuscript?

When I start to feel the poems as an interconnecting web, writing back into their ideas and images.

 

What if you feel a gap in your manuscript, but you wrote the poems on either side of the gap a long time ago?

 

Don’t try to go back to who you were then. Think instead in terms of call-and-response across time. I sometimes ask students to write out an old poem, then write into the space between the lines. They end up with either a new take on the original poem or raw material for a new one.

 

With my current manuscript, I started by writing about autoimmune disorder, this literally self-attacking system, in part as a metaphor for women’s internalized perfectionism. I followed the questions those first poems raised, and the world flooded in—all our disorientation and suffering and grasping for control. What’s the connection between the ideal of the optimized self and rising fascism? What is it to be a person, or a nation, or a community? I say this as a continually recovering perfectionist, an intersectional feminist, a neurodivergent human with chronic illness who thinks most easily in metaphor. You trace the constellations, feeling a spark that can leap the gap.

 

How long should it take for a poem that connects previous poems to appear?

 

We live in a culture that prioritizes success and achievement and finishing things. But poems don't work that way. You have to be patient, wait for the poem you weren’t ready to write before this moment. Often I’ll finish one poem, then maybe five years later, be surprised by another that approaches the same territory much more deeply.

 

The flip side is that sometimes a poem just doesn’t work in a particular manuscript. Many poems I love, poems published in my favorite journals, have never ended up in a book.

 

Sometimes they're the beginning of a new book.

 

Yes—and when you’re working on a first book, it's very hard to think beyond that. Eventually, each book might include a few poems that are still working out questions from your last one, and a few that prefigure the poems to come. I often go through a long period of writing stuff that doesn’t end up in the book I’m working on, because my emerging obsessions are still, well, emerging.

 

Do you have a particular editor or publisher or reader in mind when you're compiling a manuscript?

 

When I’m writing the poems, I just need to write them. I guess there's some consciousness that my consciousness is whispering to, but it feels strange to ask that question until much later on. Once I begin putting a manuscript together, then I can start to see it from outside, and to think about where it might be in good company.

 

Lisa Gluskin Stonestreet (lisagluskinstonestreet.com) is the author of The Greenhouse (Frost Place Prize) and Tulips, Water, Ash (Morse Poetry Prize). Her poems have appeared in journals and anthologies, including Plume, Zyzzyva, Kenyon Review, Nasty Women Poets and The Bloomsbury Anthology of Contemporary Jewish American Poetry. She reads, writes, edits, teaches, and works one-on-one with writers from her backyard Poetry Shack. She has terrible handwriting but is surprisingly good at math.

_________________________________
Zack’s new book of poetry, The Kama Sutra for Senior Citizens and Other Poems on Aging. Order in the USA    Order in the UK
Other posts of interest:

How to Get Published

Getting the Most from Your Writing Workshop

How Not to Become a Literary Dropout

Putting Together a Book Manuscript

Working with a Writing Mentor

How to Deliver Your Message

Does the Muse Have a Cell Phone?

Why Write Poetry?

Poetic Forms: Introduction, the Sonnet, the Sestina, the Ghazal, the Tanka, the Villanelle

Praise and Lament

How to Be an American Writer

Writers and Collaboration

Types of Closure in Poetry

Friday, July 10, 2020

Does a Poem Have to Stand on Its Own?

An intriguing question came up in my poetry writing group the other day. One of the poets brought in a poem that had exciting language, and seemed to be about a fascinating topic. But no one in the group could quite figure out the general subject of the poem. Once the poet clued us in about the theme of the poem, all the pieces fell beautifully into place, and we could see how strong a poem it was.

The writer said that the poem made sense in the context of a collection in progress, where several of the poems that come before this one are about the same topic. The poet asked, “Should a poem be able to stand on its own?”

Great question! Thinking about it, I realize that we usually encounter poems differently now than we did before the Internet became the dominant source of information. In a collection of poems by the same writer, there are many opportunities for a poem to rely on the works around it for context and support of its meaning.

Books of poems where individual poems are just part of the volume or part of a series within a collection were once not unusual, such as William Wordsworth’s The Prelude, Ezra Pound’s The Cantos, or John Berryman’s The Dream Songs. 

Handwritten manuscript of Wordsworth's The Prelude
Few of the poems of those books make a lot of sense when you read them individually, with no idea of the project of the entire collection, but taken together, each poem is understandable. Well, fairly understandable, in the case of Pound or Berryman!

But how often do we now read an entire collection assembled by the same writer? Usually, we read poems online, in literary magazines online or in print, or in anthologies, where poems are rarely in the setting of several other related poems by the same writer.

These days, authors are lucky if one to three hundred readers pick up an entire collection of their poems. Much more frequently, our poems are encountered one webpage at a time, experienced separately by a reader. This is one huge advantage that poetry has over other literary genres, such as fiction or drama—most poems can fit easily on a webpage. Why give up that advantage by requiring more context to understand a poem?

So my personal answer to the question, “Does a poem have to stand alone?” is an unequivocal Yes, especially in the era of the Internet.

Zack’s most recent book of poems, Irreverent Litanies
Zack’s most recent translation, Bérénice 1934–44: An Actress in Occupied Paris by Isabelle Stibbe

Other posts on writing topics:

How to Get Published

Getting the Most from Your Writing Workshop
How Not to Become a Literary Dropout
Putting Together a Book Manuscript
Working with a Writing Mentor
How to Deliver Your Message
Does the Muse Have a Cell Phone?
Why Write Poetry? 
Poetic Forms: Introduction; The Sonnet, The Sestina, The Ghazal, The Tanka, The Villanelle
Praise and Lament
How to Be an American Writer
Writers and Collaboration
Types of Closure in Poetry